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Watching our links today I ran across [this post](http://spaces.msn.com/antwerpenkaai/blog/cns!9DAC7372DCA28576!302.entry?_c11_blogpart_blogpart=blogview&_c=blogpart#postcns!9DAC7372DCA28576!302) which labels our page “bloatware rhetoric” because… well, his argument isn’t that clear to me. The author seems to think that the Justice Murphy quote from our front page is the foundation to the argument. Because he finds the guys at his local gay bar full of…

>blatant narcism (20 sometings guys strutting their stuff, with an arrogance that needs urgent psyciatric care), glorified materialism and worst of all: an overdose of prejudice towards anyone who doesn’t fit in their obsessively limited, well-defined “18-27” age niche.

… rather than full of love and inclusion as the quote implies, therefore we’re on happy drugs.

In reply, I’d say that the gay community is a good deal broader than he implies. Even if it weren’t, I don’t buy into his “it’s not a problem, it’s a lifestyle” pseudo-argument. It’s this precisely this self-centred, narcissistic bubble of the gay community we’re talking to – urging a wider, more inclusive view.

Everybody’s narcissistic… until they grow out of it.

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2 thoughts on “Rebuttal… of a kind… from Antwerp

  1. After having spent some time in the USA, I’d say that the gay community over there may be a good deal broader socially (well, they bring in the bucks, being a targeted niche-market), but only in some very select large cities, with very restricted liberties. “Internal discrimination” obviously remains a major issue, but liberties, general social acceptance and a caring legal framework are basically far more important.

    Being Belgian (like in Belgium, Europe 😉 I can marry my male lover, adopt a child and take legal action when I’m discriminated against. Most Belgians of all ages feel that tolerance and acceptance are part of our heritage. Hate-crimes against gays are virtually non-existent over here.

    In many parts of the world (including the US, Australia or even England, just 50 miles West from the Belgian coastline) this general, cultural acceptance does not exist.

    Which brings me to the point I made in my OP.

    When a society in general fundamentally does not discriminate against it gay citizens, the “self-centered, narcissistic bubble of the gay community” becomes an much more prominent (and visible) issue.

    I doubt whether “talking” to a group/someone with “issues” that generally take time to fade out (like narcism 😉 can be of any use.

    We both come from very different cultures. Acknowledging that these differences are far more important than being straight/gay may be a step in the right direction.

    Peter – Antwerp, Belgium, Europe.
    http://spaces.msn.com/antwerpenkaai

  2. But when I said that “the gay community is a good deal broader than he implies” I meant that the gay community is composed of a broader range of people than you describe. Hence things aren’t as hopeless as you portray.

    Also, as I said, I believe narcissism is a stage that can be grown out of. You say talking will do no good, I say it can’t hurt. If we don’t try we don’t know.

    Your argument in this comment seems to be that if every culture was as accepting of the gay community as Belgium, then the true horror of our narcissism would be more evident… is that really what you’re trying to say?

    I’m still waiting for some justification for the “bloatware rhetoric” slur 🙂

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